What Came After

“Israel Is Our Life Insurance”

In this episode, we travel to Rome to speak with Luca Spizzichino and David Fiorentini. Luca is the current president of the Italian Union of Jewish Students and Young Professionals (UGEI) and a freelance journalist. David, a recent medical school graduate, is UGEI’s former president and its current Policy Officer.
Luca discusses the growing challenges of combating antisemitism online and how Holocaust education has become even more central to Italian Jewish advocacy since October 7th. He also shares his efforts to defend university students whose studies were disrupted by anti-Israel protests, and reflects on his own grandparents' survival of the Holocaust without ever leaving Italy.
David talks about the difficulty of presenting Israel—a Middle Eastern country—to Western audiences. As one of just 40 Jews remaining in the Tuscan city of Siena, he reflects on the dual nature of aliyah: how moving to Israel energizes many Italian Jews, while also complicating efforts to preserve the diverse and historic Jewish culture unique to each Italian region.
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Kama Tov" by Shlomo Lipman
Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠

“Why Do You Need To Humiliate People This Way?”

Céline Bardet is an international lawyer who has worked in over 50 countries, specializing in war crimes, international justice, post-conflict security, and the prosecution of sexual violence in conflict. She is the founder of We Are NOT Weapons of War (WWoW), a nonprofit organization that develops innovative legal strategies to combat the systematic use of rape as a weapon of war.
In this episode, recorded in Paris in February 2025, we speak with Céline about the resistance she faced within her own community of legal advocates when she began working with survivors of the sexual violence committed during the October 7th attacks. She shares why she ensures that funding for her work in Israel comes from a diverse range of donors—both within and beyond the Jewish community—and how Jewish burial customs have complicated forensic investigations into these crimes. Céline also reflects on the disturbing reactions she has encountered from fellow members of the international feminist legal community, some of whom have suggested that, in the case of Israeli victims, “there must be a reason.”
Join us for this urgent and deeply important conversation.
Content Warning: This episode discusses topics including war, sexual violence, and crimes against humanity.
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Im Haya Makom" by Anat Malamud
Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠
 

"Everyone Is Hostile"

Dov Sabo, who was raised in Israel and has lived in the Netherlands for over 25 years, discusses his decision to move from Israel to the Netherlands following his service in the IDF. Coming from a religious background, Dov reflects on how life in the Netherlands initially felt more “relaxed”—until October 7th, when he was jolted awake to a reality his Auschwitz-survivor grandmother had known: that the native Dutch people he had considered friends, were not.
Dov speaks about raising his daughters in the Netherlands, why his grandmother believed Holland was a safe and acceptable place for her grandson to build his adult life, and how the October 7th attacks led him to offer “psychological first aid” to Kibbutz survivors who fled to Eilat.
Hear more about why Dov was in Egypt when the October 7th attacks began, and why Dov's response to the pogrom in Amsterdam on November 8th led many in Israel to believe that this real estate mogul might be a Lyft driver in Amsterdam.
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Yesh Mehuma" by Tzlil Dayan
Listen on ⁠Spotify or ⁠Apple Music

Participation From The Haredi Community At This Moment

Raised in Baltimore, Maryland, Rabbi Ari Koretzky (known on campus as “Rabbi K”) made his way to College Park via stops Israel, Ner Israel Rabbinical College and Johns Hopkins University, where he earned a Masters in Creative Nonfiction Writing. Ari brings his passion for Judaism, podcasting (check out “Jews You Should Know“ and "Iyun"!), jetskiing, racquetball, music and more, to his work as Executive Director. Ari lives in Silver Spring, MD with his wife Malka, and their four children – Meir, Rena, Shalom and Ahuva.
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Elokai" by Tani Polansky
Listen on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify ⁠or ⁠⁠Apple Music⁠

Zionist: I See Now What The Stakes Are For This Word

Matthew Schultz is an author and rabbinical student living between Boston and Tel Aviv with his partner Yoav. He is the author of Torat Ha'Aretz, Torah of the Land, a weekly look at the Torah portion through the lens of the Jewish relationship to the land of Israel and the idea of exile. 
Torah Ha'Aretz: https://matthewschultz.substack.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matthew_a_schultz/  
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Kavanot" by Anat Malamud
Listen on ⁠Spotify or ⁠Apple Music

More Countries In My Heart

Sara Dahan is a community builder and mental health enthusiast with a mission to foster belonging, bring difficult topics out of the shadows, and ask big questions. Sara studied neuroscience at MIT with a special interest in developmental cognitive science followed by a degree in epidemiology from NYU focusing on the health of communities. She spent 10 years as a community strategist in Brooklyn where she specialized in nurturing vulnerability and destigmatizing taboo subjects via intimate events and community structural design. Sara recently immigrated to Israel during the Israel-Hamas war to investigate the role of community in building resilience and healing PTSD.
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "I'll Show Everyone" by Tzlil Dayan
Listen on ⁠⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠Apple Music⁠

A Word From Our Producer (And Stay Tuned for Season 3!)

Season 2 has just wrapped, and we’re gearing up for an incredible Season 3.If you're interested in getting bonus content via email, you can sign up on our website, www.whatcameafter.com.Don’t forget to check out any episodes you may have missed in our first two seasons, and be sure to follow and subscribe to What Came After wherever you get your podcasts. Season 3 is coming soon and we can’t wait to share it with you!

Jerusalem Will Be a Pot of Reeling

Nicole Jansezian lives in Jerusalem where she reports on the complicated yet beautiful aspects of this city as well as the challenges facing the people of the Holy Land. She and her husband Tony are part of the Armenian Christian community of Jerusalem and are raising their three children in a crossroads of languages, cultures and religions.
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Open Our Hearts/Pote'ach et Yadecha" by Minna Bromberg
Listen on ⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠or ⁠⁠Apple Music⁠

Our Moral Victory Is To Focus On Living

Rafael Aronov is 30 years old and originally from Arad. He now lives in Be'er Sheva and is happily married to Lior. He is the son of two Jewish immigrants from the Soviet Union. Coming from an athletic family, Rafael, and his brother and sister are all martial artists. He is also a special forces police officer and takes pride in serving his country.
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Yalla" by Elnatan
Listen on ⁠⁠Spotify ⁠⁠or ⁠⁠Apple Music⁠⁠

The Fact Of The Feeling

Dr. Hemi Rotenberg is an assistant professor of Biomedical Engineering at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology. He also happens to be an IDF reservist (used to be less demanding in past years), and since Oct 7th, he has served 8 months in total during three rounds of service. He lives in Kiryat Tiv’on with his wife, four children, and a dog, which he mistakenly brought home a week before the last round of duty.
 
 
Host and Creator: Manya Marcus
Managing Producer: Maya Zanger-Nadis
Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick
Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar
Outro Music: "Morning Light" by Elijah Aaron
Listen on ⁠Spotify ⁠or ⁠Apple Music⁠